Covenant Eschatology aka Full Preterism as a system is fraught with logical fallacies that defies correct Biblical Hermeneutics. These weaknesses are easily discerned through general dialogue.
SW: And so Timothy Mark and Barnabus all lived post 70 AD…
LS: I do not have their funeral records, some died, others lived beyond that time. Why is that important to you?
SW: Because of what they wrote after 70 AD.
LS:What various men may have said then is about as useful as what various men say today here on Facebook. The writings that are important are those that were given by inspiration. Beyond the time of inspiration, human opinions, doctrines and practices began to creep into their thinking and philosophy. Genesis-Revelation is the inspired testimony of God’s redemptive purpose. What Chuck Swindoll writes today is little consequence
“And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit the same to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (II Tim. 2:2).
He told Timothy, you teach others what I taught you, so that they might be equipped to teach others also. The teachings were to be passed along and without an expiration date
I hope in the preceding dialogue the obvious contradiction becomes apparent. What the early Church fathers wrote after 70 AD becomes relevant as they were charged with preserving the oral tradition of the Apostolic faith by correct teaching. The ECF did as Paul and the others did, by writing letters and books to teach and instruct (Didache) those who followed after and to refute the heresies brought on by ignorant but self-proclaimed “Christian” heretics such as Marcion. John M. Rist stated, “The perception in many academic and professional circles… Of the theoretical crisis, combined with the ignorance of ordinary people, make way for deception, equivocations, and outright lying and humbug in public debate.”. This paper covers the most important evidence of those who lived beyond 70 AD are witnesses to, just by the fact they remained among the living and eventually died, that disproves the preterist paradigm the second coming happened in 70 AD and exposes LS perception of events as “humbug”.
Paul teaches that at the coming of Christ the dead are raised and the “we” who are alive are changed.
51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
The context of I Cor 15 we know is about the resurrection of the dead as the parallel passage is found in I Thessalonians 4. This resurrection of the dead takes places at his coming and so becomes a single event that involves all those who are in Christ. The “we” is the saints at Thessalonica and Corinth, and the whole “Body of Christ”, the church will experience the resurrection of the dead at his coming (Parousia – Epiphaneia).
Paul begins the passage with the comment that he is revealing a mystery, something that was not known, something that was hidden before is now being made known, and this concerns those who are alive at His coming. He basically states those who are alive in Christ, a new creation in Christ, and part of the Ekklesia will not die. The resurrection for one is not only those of “Jerusalem” or does his coming involve only the church at Jerusalem as those men were warned beforehand and fled to Pella as recorded by Josephus and Eusebius. The resurrection then is of all of the dead in Christ, which is inclusive of all Martyrs. Secondly then those who are in Christ and alive will experience a change would include every member of the body of Christ throughout the Roman empire.
“Sleep” being a metaphor for death means then those who are alive will not die, but they will be changed. Now if we go no further than this the obvious truth then can be applied to any Christian who lived after 70 AD in these churches, they were changed according to the Preterists paradigm, they cannot die, spiritually or physically. Being made a new creation in Christ and made alive in Him they were not in need of “spiritual” rebirth at his coming. They were to be a part of the resurrection at his Coming because they already were made a new creation. So this change then is not of the spirit but of the body as Paul in context is speaking about people who had died physically and those who were alive physically.
Even still the major truth is missed: We who are alive will not die. What necessitates that at his coming people have to die? Was the idea that in order to experience the resurrection of the dead a person has to die in order to be raised? So Paul is revealing the mystery No you do not have to die at his coming, instead you will be changed. Our next question then is HOW will they be changed. we shall be changed… The people then who are alive and in Christ will undergo a change so that they will not die physically. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, again we have established this is not the “Body” of Christ being changed it is the perishable body of a person who is alive. Perishability is quality of the body alone in that it grows old and eventually perishes in the dust. IN What universe could anyone say that the “body of Christ” can experience perishing into the dust? Now I have heard some say that “the Body of Christ is made up of people who are mortal and imperishable and so at his coming they received their full salvation by being made imperishable and immortal”. So does this mean at the new birth they are only half saved?
If we say it’s the body of Christ experiencing the change then we are saying the Body of Christ is subject to growing old and being corrupted and dying. Further we add, this mortal body must put on immortality. When was the Body of Christ ever mortal [subject to “death”] of any kind? “Mortal meaning subject to death was and cannot ever be applied to any facet of the Ekklesia as those who make up the Ekklesia were included into the Body of Christ by the new birth, becoming a new creation as Paul states,
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Gal 6:15 It doesn’t matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.
There is no verse or meaning in “mortal” or “perishable” that has ever been applied to the body of Christ (heretical) or to the soul, but to the body alone. The soul cannot grow old nor is subject to death.
This Mortal body, then is the physical body NOT the body of Christ.
This Perishable body, then is the physical body that is being changed.
So now the import of why those who lived after 70 AD are important witnesses. IF Christ had come in 70 AD those who were alive would have been changed, their mortal bodies would have been changed to immortal and their perishable bodies would have been made imperishable.
History tells us they all died. They were never removed off the earth. John living in Ephesus died in Ephesus as history records. Since they died, they were never changed, so either Paul was liar or the second coming did not happen. No one was caught up to meet the Lord in the air as history records the same Bishops were placed over the churches before 70 AD were still bishops after 70 AD except for the church at Jerusalem.
- After the martyrdom of James and the conquest of Jerusalem which immediately followed, it is said that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord that were still living came together from all directions with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh (for the majority of them also were still alive) to take counsel as to who was worthy to succeed James.
- They all with one consent pronounced Symeon, the son of Clopas, of whom the Gospel also makes mention; to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Savior. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph
Conclusion? I can reach no other because the church continued to exist after 70 AD, no one was changed or did any one pronounce they were changed to immortal or imperishable and that they all died, the Second Appearing could not have happened in 70 AD or Paul was a liar.